HTML conversion by M. Verbitsky.
From stefka@helix.nih.gov Mon Oct 10 23:17:31 1994
Received: by helix.nih.gov (940715.SGI.52/1.35(m-sg-1.0))
id AA19146; Mon, 10 Oct 94 23:19:10 -0400
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 23:19:10 -0400
From: stefka@helix.nih.gov (Stefan V. Kass)
Message-Id: <9410110319.AA19146@helix.nih.gov>
To: verbit@coolidge
Subject: stuff
Status: RO
(one of the headers - this one went to 7 newsgroups)
From: shlomo@bwalk.dm.com (Shlomo Ruthenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,israel.jem,israel.jpol,israel.hillel,israel.ch
abad,israel.2nd-gen,relcom.commerce.medicine
Subject: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with your tax $$
$
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:28:31 GMT
Organization: Young Israel of Forest Hills
Lines: 58
(alternative header - this one was directed to another 8 groups)
From: shlomo@bwalk.dm.com (Shlomo Ruthenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.cult
ure.german,sci.med.telemedicine,sci.med,sci.bio,pdaxs.religion.jewish
Subject: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with your tax $$
$
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:28:31 GMT
Organization: Young Israel of Forest Hills
Lines: 58
(one more header, 7 more groups)
From: shlomo@bwalk.dm.com (Shlomo Ruthenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.music.jewish,alt.current-
events.net-abuse,talk.politics.medicine,talk.politics.misc,misc.taxes
Subject: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with your tax $$
$
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:28:31 GMT
Organization: Young Israel of Forest Hills
Lines: 58
(one more header, 7 groups to add)
From: shlomo@bwalk.dm.com (Shlomo Ruthenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,talk.politics.mideast,soc.
culture.soviet,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.romanian,sci.psychology
Subject: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with your tax $$
$
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:28:31 GMT
Organization: Young Israel of Forest Hills
Lines: 58
As a religious Jew I am OUTRAGED that my tax money is used to pay for Internet
access for the notorious Jew-hating Russian punk - one Mr. Dimitri Pruss. This
Soviet-Nazi genocide apologist may have the right to post his "kill the kikes"
messages from AmeriKKKa Online or Delphi, but not from a computer that *I* and
other American taxpayers have paid for with our tax money. I ask every Jew who
reads this to contact Dr. Steven Bailey by e-mail: postmaster@helix.nih.gov or
Steve_Bailey@nih.gov, tel: (301) 496-4823, fax: (301) 402-2190, USPS: National
Institutes of Health, Bldg. 12B, Rm. 2N-207, Bethesda, MD 20892, and demand as
taxpayers that anti-Jewish propaganda like this NEVER AGAIN appears on Usenet:
>From: pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Subject: Re: Could Russia learn from Germany? (was: Ivangorod/Jaanilinn and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Petseri/Petshory)
>Message-ID: <1994Sep24.193032.3421@alw.nih.gov>
>Sender: postman@alw.nih.gov (AMDS Postmaster)
>Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, 20892
>References: <1994Sep21.140611.1@ualr.edu>
><1994Sep22.002042.26759@alw.nih.gov>
>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 19:30:32 GMT
>
>In article akk@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gustav Akk)
>writes:
>> Or in other words: if one massacres Jews he is not right, and
>> if one builds them a monument - he is not right either.
>> Makes you wonder what do they want....
>
>Well you know if you ask 3 Jews a question, you'll end up with 4 opinions,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>at least 3 of them being diametrally opposite. If that makes you
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>uncomfortable, then there's a patented way to make them feel the same: to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>get rid of them. Monument-building is optional.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is 6,000,000 dead not enough? Time to add Dimitri Pruss to the list of hateful
prominent anti-Semites in this country, like Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan.
You may want to send a carbon copy to your senators and congressperson as well.
Please note that the Jew-hater Pruss is but one of several such Russian racists
who openly post their attacks on Jews, Ukrainians, Turks, Romanians, and other
ethnic groups in the soc.culture.* hierarchy. Their recent soc.culture.soviet
traffic has only recently included paranoid rantings about some anti-Soviet
Jewish-Ukrainian conspiracy on Usenet, lists of Jewish victims they claim to
have "spanked" off the Net through forgeries and false denunciations, and even
forged calls for a creation of a "Jew-free" moderated "soc.culture.russian"
newsgroup. The proposed moderator of the latter (who has himself been publicly
identified by Georgi Orlov and Ivan Dementiev on America Online as a well-known
Pamyat' activist who used to "beat up" Jews in Moscow) has been heard shrilly
defending Pruss's alleged right to post anti-Semitic messages on Usenet from a
taxpayer-funded account. While there are many loud anti-Semitic voices on the
net, in this particular case, support from Pamyat' racists seals Pruss's fate.
NEVER AGAIN.
Have a good Shabbos,
Shlomo
From: simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,talk.politics.mideast,soc.
culture.soviet,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish,alt.current-event
s.net-abuse,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with your ta
x $$$
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 07:11:21 EDT
Organization: Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y. (718) 261-2013
Lines: 39
btgi19@btr0x1.hrz.uni-bayreuth.de (L. Chamberlin) writes:
> Wait a minute. We just went through this on soc.culture.baltics. Dmitry is
> Jewish himself and was only being sarcastic. Check the thread "Please don't
> use sci and scj to 'report antisemitism'."
So, Dimitri "Holocaust joker" Pruss has discovered that in America it is more
profitable to be a Jew than to be an anti-Semite and decided to convert. Well,
according to my databases, "bris mila" is an important part of a man's "giyur"
and is easily accomplished by kicking Vorobiev on the chin. But will Dimitri
now have to change his name to a one more Jewish-sounding, like "Abrasha" or
"Mosha"? Will he also change his e-mail address to something like "@aol.com",
to join his fellow anti-Semites Georgi Orlov and Ivan Dementiev? Or will he
continue using your tax money to post such offensive anti-Semitic propaganda:
]From: pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss)
]Subject: Re: Could Russia learn from Germany? (was: Ivangorod/Jaanilinn and
]Petseri/Petshory)
]Message-ID: <1994Sep24.193032.3421@alw.nih.gov>
]Sender: postman@alw.nih.gov (AMDS Postmaster)
]Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, 20892
]References: <1994Sep21.140611.1@ualr.edu>
]<1994Sep22.002042.26759@alw.nih.gov>
]Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 19:30:32 GMT
]
]In article akk@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gustav Akk)
]writes:
]> Or in other words: if one massacres Jews he is not right, and
]> if one builds them a monument - he is not right either.
]> Makes you wonder what do they want....
]
]Well you know if you ask 3 Jews a question, you'll end up with 4 opinions,
]at least 3 of them being diametrally opposite. If that makes you
]uncomfortable, then there's a patented way to make them feel the same: to
]get rid of them. Monument-building is optional.
What does Steve_Bailey@nih.gov have to say to all of this? And finally, who
said, "russkie prusskikh zavsegda bivali?" Artificial minds want to know.
This posting was generated by an artificial intelligence program.
Here is my explanation of the situation. It appeared on both soc.culture.baltics and
soc.culture.israel on Sept. 26th and satisfied ALL the participants of the story. Note that the
semi-anominmous netters from aol.com and dm.com picked my quote long AFTER the situation has cleared
up (the authentic article is in my archives which are no longer accessible to me because my acct is
suspended; here is how it was quoted by another netter):
dmitry pruss (pruss@helix.nih.gov) wrote:
: In soc.culture.israel, otto@kgs.twi.tudelft.nl (Otto de Voogd) forwarded
: a quote from my soc.culture.baltics post with a following comment :
: >>Well you know if you ask 3 Jews a question, you'll end up with 4 opinions,
: >>at least 3 of them being diametrally opposite. If that makes you
: >>uncomfortable, then there's a patented way to make them feel the same: to
: >>get rid of them. Monument-building is optional.
: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >Now you've really done it! You're living in the US right? I hope they will
: >fry you for this! If there is one thing I can't stand in this world and for
: >which I have ZERO TOLERANCE it's a fucking Anti-Semetic Neo-Nazi!
: Hi Otto, I've replied to your personal mail already. What I didn't know
: is that you not only posted it to scb, but also sent a separate copy to
: soc.culture.israel. Please be advised that joking about the Holocaust is
: _not_ recommended in s.c.i. Your inconsiderate forwarding costed people
: there a lot of lost time and nervous energy, since your technique of
: quoting out of context worked just fine to make them feel awfull.
: Your apologies will be accepted.
: I also apologize for the bitter feelings I inadverently woke up. For anyone
: interested in seeng the quote in the real context of the discussion, a few
: excerpts follow:
: I should note that in s.c.baltics (where I wrote it) a lot of irony
: goes unmarked, particularly between the friends-opponents
: who've known one another for years (as it is the case
: with me and Gustav Akk). Earlier in the thread (which started from Otto's
: flamebait "the Russians should learn from the Germans - the latter were
: deported from Holland in '45 and when they come as tourists these days,
: they don't dare to speak German" (not an exact quote, don't sue me), and
: went ahead to discuss deportees, returnees and refugees), I quoted
: an article from the Wash Post about continuing resentment
: among some of Estonian Jews _despite_ all positive developments:
: -----------begin quote
: Newsgroups: soc.culture.baltics
: From: pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss)
: Subject: Re: Could Russia learn from Germany? (was: Ivangorod/Jaanilinn and Pe
tseri/Petshory)
: Message-ID: <1994Sep22.002042.26759@alw.nih.gov>
: References: <35msvc$6kh@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> <1994Sep21.152039.191
48@alw.nih.gov> <1994Sep21.140611.1@ualr.edu>
: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 00:20:42 GMT
: In article <1994Sep21.140611.1@ualr.edu> axmerilo@ualr.edu writes:
: > pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss) writes:
: [big deletion]
: >And finally, you are trying to imply that there is a significant exodus
: >of people from Estonia to Israel
: Yeah, it already came to me that I should have written about all 3
: countries here, since Jewish emigration originates mostly in Latvia and
: Lithuania. Yet there's a resentment among the little Estonian Jewish
: community too - I can refer you to the article in the Wash Post earlier
: this month about 8/31 opening a memorial on the site of 1944' massacre of
: (W European) Jews near Tallin. Basically it mentioned the older-generation
: Jews who thought that the govt. uses them as trading chips and makes them
: to change their language - from Russian to Hebrew and Estonian - in their
: old age. Why is it so, a retiree stated, that we have to laern Hebrew to
: be respected? If we have to do it anyway, wouldn't it be easier to do it in
: Israel? Didn't our long life, full of honest work, earned us a right to be
: what we are?
: -------end quote
: (Note that I didn't comment the paper). Gustav replied along
: the line "what a funny people you're, when you're killed
: you're unhappy and when monuments are erected in your honor
: you're unhappy too" - this also might be perceived as an
: bad antisemititic joke, but I knew Gustav too well to overreact.
: ---------begin quote
: Newsgroups: soc.culture.baltics
: From: akk@acsu.buffalo.edu (Gustav Akk)
: Subject: Re: Could Russia learn from Germany? (was: Ivangorod/Jaanilinn and Pe
tseri/Petshory)
: Message-ID:
: References: <35msvc$6kh@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> <1994Sep21.152039.191
48@alw.nih.gov> <1994Sep21.140611.1@ualr.edu> <1994Sep22.002042.26759@alw.nih.go
v>
: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:22:48 GMT
: dmitry pruss wrote:
: >
: >Yet there's a resentment among the little Estonian Jewish
: >community too - I can refer you to the article in the Wash Post earlier
: >this month about 8/31 opening a memorial on the site of 1944' massacre of
: Or in other words: if one massacres Jews he is not right, and
: if one builds them a monument - he is not right either.
: Makes you wonder what do they want....
: Gustav
: ----------- end quote
: To that I wanted to answer that one cannot make all the Jews happy with one
: action along one line - that there always is a spectrum of contradicting
: opinions among us the Jews, at least as long as one doesn't ask our opinion
: about massacres. Alas, this part didn't look nice out of context - and that
: was how Otto used it in his s.c.i. "report".
: Shalom,
: D "some tolerance never harms...
: but it doesn't come without brains"
=========
This information is organized into a mini-Q&A panel.
A: whereas we never heard of S. Rutenberg before 'his' megacrossposting, we've heard a lot about bwalk.dm.com, a BBS owned by the Vulis family. (Please see below for some background on Dimitri Vulis, the sysadmin of this site)
On numerous occasions, there're articles and e-mail messages sent by bwalk.dm.com "users" with suspiciosly looking names (including names of Russian politicians, military commanders, poets and writers, as well as of Usenet authors whom Dimitri Vulis happened to dislike). The names either match the real names of the emulated persons *exactly* , or, often, are diminutive and derogatory versions of the real names of real people.
This practice is not merely a harmless joke. It was mostly employed for two dirty purposes: either to expose the opponents of Vulis as bigots and maniacs by posting offensive comments apparently-from their names, or to screw up Usenet voing process by sending dozens of votes from fictitious bwalk users.
Thus I assume that shlomo@bwalk.dm.com must be an account created by bwalk's sysadmin to smear the realspace Vlad Rutenberg, a Usenet oldtimer who publicly opposed the dirty games of Vulis, and who has already been an object of Vulis's dirty tricks 3 years ago (when Rutenberg lost his net access because of Vulis's insinuations)
(Please notice that simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (see Appendix 5) is another parody simulation of Vlad Rutenberg RpostingS from the BBS of Mr. Vulis. Please notice also that the articles of shlomo@bwalk.dm.com are attributed to a fictitious organization RYoung Israel on Forest HillsS (cf. with the Organization: line of Appendix 5))
He harasses people all over the net with the most offensive sorts of messages, and uses dirty tricks to retaliate to the people who do get offended. Among his accomplished feats is a series of articles about cat-eating dogs posted to rec.pets.cats (which caused a wave of complaints and made him lost his CUNY account) ; a series of porno binaries with obscene comments about his opponents posted to math-related newsgroups (he lost another academic account, at fordham.edu, after this scandal); and a series of racist articles denigrating all aspects of romanian life and culture which used to haunt the romanian newsgroup for years.
Of course most of his net.bile is spilled over his fellow XSoviets, particularly of Jewish origin (such as Michael Verbitsky, Boris Veytsman, Vlad Rutenberg or myself, as well as all Brighton Beach together); and a lot of stuff comes out from his alleged aliases in bwalk.dm.com, aol.com and fly.harvard.edu. Some of these aliases match the names of his opponents, as I already mentioned. Sometimes not only the names but also addresses match (although paths don't).
Dimitri Vulis also advertises the capabilities of his site for forging and cancelling articles. Sometimes he shrewdly comments articles of his own saying : "This article is most certainly forged, after all I spent a lot of time teaching you how to forge... but I nevertheless like this article's content".
The so-called "Holocaust joke" has been a topic of discussion in both the X-Soviet groups and in soc.culture.israel, and I can either address the netters to the "Don't use sci and scj to "report antisemitism"" thread there or to send the fragments of the discussion I saved. Very briefly, my statement was _pro_ rather than anti-Jewish; it appeared in soc.culture.baltics in the context of a discussion blaming the Baltic Jews in ingratitude towards the Baltic states. My phrase was meant to explain that although the Baltic states did make some nice things to their Jewish minorities, we the Jews are entitled to different opinions about the situation. I sarcastically wrote that we are going to have different opinions ever, at least until we are dead. (Note that the "ingrateful" opinion of a local Jewish retiree was taken from the Washington Post interview, and I never sided with it throughout the discussion).
Unfortunately a new participant of s.c.b, Otto de Voogd from Holland, missed the context of the discussion and misstook my phrase for a Holocaust repetition call. He then placed it out of context, but with his obscene comment, to soc.culture.israel, where it caused a lot of grief and resentment. Both me and Otto took responsibility for this inconsiderate repost to s.c.i and issued apologies; and I also recieved letters of understanding from s.c.i. netters who were originally misslead by the would-be joke torn out of context.
So by the end of last week the controversy seemed to be over; it was then when alienmed@aol.com and alexplore@aol.com, the apparent aliases of Dmitri Vulis, intervened and reposted Otto's article to scores of newsgroups and issued complaints to my sysadmin.
Although this guy never gives a clue about his identity, the Uke audience doesn't trust his claim of Ukrainness. Indeed, Alex has never been concerned by the questions of Ukrainian independence, poltics, history or culture. All what he does is personal attacks on the xSoviets of the mixed heritage, particularly the Jews. (These include traditional anti-Semit cliche's such as a word "Gescheftmacher" or frequent mentioning of "small circumcised penises"). Well, at least one ethnic Russian is also a target of alexplore's attack: it is Pete Vorobieff, probably one of the best known Russian participants of Usenet (famous for his role in stopping the legendary megaposter Serdar Argic). Incidentally, Pete isn't active in soc.culture.ukrainian; but he is one of the most prominent opponents of Dimitri Vulis.
Although Alex Thurston explains frequent matches of his and Vulis's style and cliche's by the fact that he is a friend and a disciple of Dimitri Vulis, it is not surprising that the net maintaines that his articles are (often) written by Vulis.
(Note added in proof: lately Alex Thurston claimed a realspace identity by providing his phone and fax numbers; I used this chance to question him, and thus discovered that he doesn't think I'm a Nazi (his ``Soviet-Nazi'' label was only figurative, he said) and doesn't think that my controversial statement is anti-Semitic. Much to my surprise, he didn't seem to be aware of the discussions underway in the x-Soviet groups, and he seemed to dwell mostly in the world of his psychotic dreams. Incidentally, Mr. Thurston refused to undertake any action before he contacts... no, not his lawyer. Dimitri Vulis.)
Aleienmed@aol.com is a less prolific and less obscene participant of the XSoviet newsgroups. "His" identity remained obscure until "he" mistakingly signed as Alex Thurston. It's no secret that AOL allows a user to hold up to 5 aliases.
Since alienmed is less involved in net.judeophobia than alexplore, it's not surprising that it was alienmed who initiated the 2nd round of the "Pruss is Nazi" campaign and who wrote to my sysadmin. The same rule in the 3rd and thus far the widest round of the campaign (which was started by an allegedly-Jewish Rutenberg (shlomo@bwalk.dm.com) rather than by pathologically bigoted simvlad@bwalk.dm.com and dragon@fly.harward.edu). The pattern is consistent: an alias less involved in anti-Semitism starts an "expose'" , then a more vile alias follows up.
HTML conversion by M. Verbitsky.